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Transcript:
00:00.00
tinyboards
Hello everyone my name is Tyler sellhorn and welcome to another episode of the remote show where we discuss everything to do with remote work with the people who know it. Best. Thanks so much for listening the remote show is brought to you by we work remotely. The largest community of remote workers in the world with 220000 unique users per month. We work remotely is the most effective way to hire Today. We are blessed to be learning out loud with Mary Ellen stockton Mary Ellen is the Ceo of work. Well wherever Mary Ellen helps small businesses and startups help I really mess that up so we are going to start all the way over. Okay I did not write that down. Well okay, marion helps small businesses and startups.
00:40.19
Maryellen
Hire will and lead will right? I always say hired the right people hire the right people and lead them well as what I usually say.
00:41.58
tinyboards
To hire well and lead well hire the right people and lead them. Well.
00:55.19
Maryellen
Yep, lead them? well. So it kind of flows right? ah.
01:04.20
tinyboards
Yep yep Yep okay, Connor thank you for making a sound amazing I'm gonna get this going started over again. We're at time market 151 hello everyone. My name is Tyler sellhorn and welcome to another episode of the remote show. We discuss everything to do with remote work with the people who know it. Best. Thanks so much for listening the remote show is brought to you by we work remotely. The largest community of remote workers in the world with 220000 unique users per month we work remotely is the most effective way to hire Today. We are blessed to be learning out loud with Mary Ellen stockton Mary Ellen is the Ceo of work. Well work. Well wherever Mary Ellen helps small businesses and startups hire the right people and lead them. Well Mary Ellen welcome to the remote show tell us what are you noticing as we've shifted from a. Selling position on the idea of remote work generally and now kind of starting from the assumption of hybrid and and all remote as being the default what? what are you seeing as you're helping your customers your clients be effective remote leaders.
02:11.60
Maryellen
Yeah I love that question Tyler and and thanks for having me so I think it is you know from the very beginning when I started work. Well wherever there was a focus on you know, remote and I saw all the benefits and I didn't want to have to sell it and so of course it's been nice. Um, to have the shift of over the last two years of people being you know, remote work being more the mainstream right? like that's no longer the selling point I think that what I've seen is this hybrid ah model meaning we have some in office and we have some remote teams is here to stay. And we really have to rethink you know how we're going to do things so it's not business as usual and we've come a long way. So I always say at this time. Let's don't go backwards. Let's think about how we can move forward in these you know hybrid roles and 1 of the things that I see. Over and over again and you set it before when you introduce me is about you know if you hire the right people and you lead them. Well it doesn't matter where they work from so really thinking about you know how we set people up for success. And 1 of the one of the main things is that clear is kind if you if you remember anything clear is kind so having clear goals and expectations as a leader as a team as a business and making sure that you. Everyone knows what is expected of them. You're providing feedback our role as the leader is not to do the work for them or to micromanage our role is to trust that we have hired the right person and we set clear kind you know communications and then we can. Correct them if you know something goes right? If it's not as we wanted it. We can provide feedback. Um, so that's one of the biggest things and 1 of the places I starts when I work with my clients.
04:16.57
tinyboards
Really cool to to you know just to introduce a whole bunch of threads I'd love to pull on there. Um, one of the things that you mentioned was the idea of of let's let's not go backwards right? You you mentioned that you know you.
04:21.54
Maryellen
Yeah.
04:30.90
Maryellen
Ah, you that.
04:36.30
tinyboards
Maybe had to do a little bit of selling on the idea of you know the benefits of remote you know in in a previous iteration of our remote working world I'm I'm wondering when you think about the difference between a a a.
04:43.80
Maryellen
Yes, 3
04:53.75
tinyboards
Company that is saying Okay, we're going to default to a hybrid mode where at least some part of our you know workforce is going to be outside of a co-located environment where they're going to be remote. Um, what do you think those people that are choosing not to be in the office.
05:01.84
Maryellen
Over over.
05:12.51
tinyboards
What are they seeking? What are the benefits that you described and you were were doing a little bit of selling on but before we we had the broad shift during the pandemic to remote working what what? what is it that people are seeking when they say I want to work remotely. What are the benefits that they are seeking.
05:28.27
Maryellen
Um, yeah, there's there's so many things I used to say you know I live in a metro city. So one of the things was that nothing can take away the commute and traffic right? like no matter what you do even if you listen to the best podcast by the time that you. Get to work and you're suck in traffic. You are exhausted so people can start their day whenever works best for them. You know, meaning that if you're a morning morning person and you get in that zone. You can start the day at at seven o'clock and get done. You know. At a certain time I think that works for people so having flexibility of time and where you work um, having that time to be able to focus and have you know heads down time to get things done as great. Also I I find as a way of not going backwards I tell my clients. Think as if you're remote because that means like you know that we are using asynchronous communication that we are preparing for meetings right? beforehand before we have the meeting. We're preparing for it. So maybe we have a shared agenda that we create and send out in advance and it really. Um, forces us to be I think more proactive which is actually better for everyone in the long run. So really thinking through you know how do we work and what kind of work. Do we need to do together and what's best for you know heads down time.
06:53.70
tinyboards
I Think that's super interesting to hear you say think as if you're remote even if you're not right? You're you're talking to you know clients that that may or may not have an office that people can come to and.
06:58.57
Maryellen
Oh your talking.
07:08.21
tinyboards
You know plus one to to dodging an exhausting commute and and you know plus 1000 to having the flexibility to work when we are most productive or when it it fits our lives instead of ah the other way round. Um, one of the things you said in the first set.
07:21.60
Maryellen
So yes, yes.
07:27.43
tinyboards
You you mentioned that hybrid is here to stay and and then you're kind of talking about the idea of thinking as if you're remote put those 2 ideas next to each other for us when you're saying we're going to think as if we're remote but we might also have some people in the office. You you mentioned that it forces proactivity. What What's what do you mean by that because like like we've heard these ideas from the remote thought leaders. But what what does that look like what are the behaviors that we need to take to to maximize our.
07:51.24
Maryellen
That's.
08:03.48
tinyboards
Our workplaces. However, they happen to be organized.
08:04.33
Maryellen
Yeah, Absolutely absolutely. So I think you know with one of the things of like blending So We we had companies as you mentioned that were were fully remote before you know pandemic and before this change but now as she people are shifting Back. You know, no one really wants to go back back into the office or it's usually a mix you know and so now they're moving back to Hybrid. Let's don't get back into the old habits that we had when we were fully in the office meaning that a lot of times I see leaders where I say what is taking up the most of your time. You know what's taking up the most of your time they're overwhelmed too many things to manage and it's interruptions throughout the day. Okay, so let's that's when what an example where I say let's think like we were remote so before you know and we were able to manage it so we did some things like Asynchronous. We had set times where we had to meet right? because we couldn't be in person So like really you know making these meetings Matter. So There's a set time and there's consistency in your one on ones and that's the time they asked you know they ask questions that you have a schedule that everyone can see you know. Um, whether you're in office or not that you have meeting agendas and shared place for collaboration and documents that are seen and accessible to everyone so that those kind of things that you know that's kind of what I say of that like mix and it also includes a don't go backwards is like. Let's don't get back to like now we're partially back in the office and we'll rely on those old ways when they didn't didn't really work well to start with.
09:42.60
tinyboards
Interesting, Interesting to hear you say that the the old ways weren't the best ways and that the romo experience of companies that maybe are even returning to the office is still forcing us to think about.
09:54.91
Maryellen
Is.
10:01.40
tinyboards
What might be better than what we had before and I'm I'm hoping that that you know whether we're become an office first or a remote first. Obviously we're here on the remote show. So we're we're out here in the internet streets for remote work. But you know I'm I'm hoping that we.
10:03.19
Maryellen
Yes.
10:14.33
Maryellen
Strengths oh.
10:18.34
tinyboards
Have that feeling of of forcing the proactivity that that came from being in a distributed environment and bringing that back. Let's let's do what you're encouraging clients. Let's think as if we are remote. Let's prepare for meetings. Let's let's have ways of.
10:27.11
Maryellen
Yes.
10:34.75
tinyboards
You know, sharing documents that are transparent and open and being you know you mentioned and this is what I was going to invite you to talk more about is to say Okay, what do you mean when you say clear is kind I've I've heard that phrase before but um, much more inside of the um.
10:46.13
Maryellen
6 um phrase.
10:54.19
tinyboards
Ah, just peek by behind the curtain here a moment for me. My spouse is a therapist and I've heard that phrase clear is kind from from Brene brown who by the way I Really want to.
10:57.77
Maryellen
I suppose. Yes.
11:07.84
tinyboards
Ah, have an opportunity to talk to her because I'm also a podcast listener. She's been talking to a bunch of people that are that are not ah advocates for remote work I'm I'm really I'm very excited to hear you? Yeah I would I would really like to hear you talk about how to develop trust in a remote team.
11:14.56
Maryellen
Um, bring her on bring her on. Ah.
11:23.71
Maryellen
Yes, yes, so another thing that I usually say is because sometimes when my clients come to me. It's because they've hired the wrong person right? They've hired the wrong person.
11:25.63
tinyboards
Because that seems to be the theme that's out there right now of the of the office first vote.
11:42.60
Maryellen
So Then when we go through and talk about okay well how did we set them up for success. Um, meaning that we had an onboarding and training plan and what does that look like and that we were thorough on the interview because they didn't come to work with you. You know as their leader or the owner of this small business because they didn't think they could succeed and you didn't hire them. Thinking that they couldn't succeed So How can we best set them up well from the start. So What I mean about clear is kind is that you have goals and visions and values for your business and you are communicating those more often than you even feel like you should. So you're communicating you know where we're headed what our purpose is how we work Here. You know the expectations of what it looks like if we're hybrid like we meet these certain times their core hours. Those are dress code. We have a shared Calendar. You know these communication norms. And then also that you're you know, communicating What are the goals for your business like what are we trying to accomplish and then you have goals even for new new team members that align with whatever the goals are or for your business so people want you know. People want expectations. They want to be guided right? like left to our own devices. Um, you know who knows what might happen but they want to be guided like no one you know, just wants is it there. They want you know to for you to communicate these things. So Let's let's do that.
13:11.57
tinyboards
Okay, you you mentioned some very like the behaviors who is the primary audience of the remote show right? We are hiring managers we are remote job seekers and you know you know we're living inside of this.
13:22.68
Maryellen
Yes, yes.
13:28.43
tinyboards
Recruiting hiring onboarding training space and and when you think about you know you mentioned it right off the top to say that you want to help small businesses and startups hire the right people and lead them. Well.
13:29.56
Maryellen
Training space. Ah.
13:43.30
tinyboards
What does it look like inside of a recruiting process. What does it look like inside of the the hiring ah phase of of ah of a candidate's um, you know lifespan with a company and the onboarding the train. What does that look like when we do that? well.
13:57.39
Maryellen
Umm, oh well, again, that goes back to like wow like preparation is key right? really thinking through those things because when people do say okay I've hired the wrong you know the the wrong person so I go through you know we start at the beginning like you know when you needed when you knew that you needed to hire someone a lot of times I feel that people wait too long to hire. So I try to get my clients and people that I work with to think strategic about hiring. Meaning we have a plan we've looked at it for the year we know what's coming up. We know what our goals are and we think about what what kind of team members. We might might need to hire to accomplish our goals so that's the first step and then once we figure that out it's where are the gaps. So we've looked ah like internally at our team. We know the roles and responsibilities. We know what's coming up so where are the gaps and from there you're really creating this job description or this job ad and I really focus a lot especially currently on this job ad piece again. We're being. Clear of what you expect so that no one you know meaning we include the salary the benefits the the values the what we do? What's responsible what you're responsible for you know if we have core hours the kind of things that we you know that we work with. Meaning as much as we can put out there in the job ad then we are attracting the kind of candidate that best you know works with us. So like there's a lot of work that goes into before you even put the job hosting out there and then once you do really creating a. A process that is about the candidate experience because I'm sure as you know and everyone else who's listening is hiring has been. You know a nightmare almost impossible over the last year you know people are are leaving right and left when you don't have flexibility and so. We start of being clear about what we are looking for and then putting that out there where it's really a reflection of what it's like to work with us right? So that somebody says heck yeah I want to work with them and then designing a hiring process that includes how you work so that we are thorough in that process. And I always say if it's not a heck yes, it's a heck, no meaning that you know if there were any like red flags or things that just kind of threw you off guard in the interview process. Then it's probably not going to be a good fit. So don't rush the process like it's very important not to rest the process and.
16:37.60
Maryellen
And then after you know we do finally you know have this amazing candidate that is starting then that is you know, just the beginning of preparing again for amazing an onboarding experience having a training plan. You know, really getting to know them. Having more check-ins and one on ones from the very first you know and the very first like ninety days also to set some small goals and wins upfront so that the person that has just joined your team. You know. Can feel like they've accomplished something and you know and are motivated to continue on. So. It's a very you know I think the hiring process I would say starts long before the hire.
17:24.77
tinyboards
I really enjoy the idea that we want to throughout this process that we're helping to manage right? We want to make it obvious to the candidate right? and we we will also want to make it obvious to us which candidate. Is the 1 we want it. We want those heck yeahs and and there's probably going to be some heck Nos through the process to to get to that point where we're saying okay this this person ah applied after they had all of the as much information as we could.
17:43.46
Maryellen
Yes, yes, yes.
18:00.68
tinyboards
You know, reasonably provide inside of a job ad they still chose to apply right? and and there there wasn't any secrets of like Ha we're we're here. We're now you know and it's like but but like no we we we want them to be able to self select out if that's not something that fits them right.
18:04.30
Maryellen
Yes, yes, it's like.
18:16.86
Maryellen
Bright bright.
18:20.12
tinyboards
Um, I think that's so key to be be really clear as you have described and that is and that that is a kindness right to to be obvious about which things are important to you and which things are not and then also setting someone up for success of saying okay hey.
18:25.93
Maryellen
Is experience to be obvious.
18:36.53
tinyboards
Here are the ways for us to feel really good and for you to feel really good about us in those first 30 60 90 days. Um, okay you you mentioned ah earlier on about leaders right? Having old habits right.
18:41.71
Maryellen
First. Yes.
18:50.26
Maryellen
Peters right? Listen this is this is.
18:54.89
tinyboards
And and and doing an audit of their calendar of their time. Um, what do you think are the key things that we need to say goodbye to as it relates to old habits and being being successful in 2022 and Beyond. What do we need to embrace as new habits to say. Okay, now we're ready to win Now. It's a heck yeah for for us and for our company as we as we lead.
19:21.13
Maryellen
Right? I think you know I didn't I didn't mention um I didn't mention it when we were first talking about it but 1 of the things is like we have all these amazing tools now right? So use them use them like so thinking about it doesn't mean. We add a million tools. It means you know what tools were we you know using and use those so you know there are ah with with the calendar with what can be accomplished. You know, asynchronously when do we need to use Zoom like when it is it. You know when would we like to see somebody face to face. So really thinking about you know the tools and and using them. Well you know they're they're in place for a reason I think about um, you know I work with a lot of attorneys. So when I'm working with them and I think about them having to you know. Go to court for all these things or have all this paper storage. They are moving away from that and they can take their laptop and work well wherever and it's amazing. So you know as we're thinking about that when you if you want to be able to work well from from wherever. You know what do you need to do to set up on the backend to be able to do that and still lead from afar and that is having you know the right tools in place and the right you know ways to use them and how we communicate and that. That it. You know you show and ah I know that we've had some pushback from clients that people work with saying well I don't want you know I don't I want to come see you in person or this takes away things. But I think the ways that it can enhance that client relationship even far outweigh. How we were like the going backwards because it's like you know we could have a Zoom call and not have to meet in person and you not have to drive and me not have to drive and it can all be handled so it is also you know, still having a personal touch but then using the tools wisely to enhance. Overall experience.
21:30.96
tinyboards
Interesting to hear you talk about using the tools and then in in the midst of you so talking about using the tools you mentioned things like paper you mentioned things like driving right.
21:41.45
Maryellen
Things like things like.
21:47.52
tinyboards
I Think it's really really interesting to hear you describe using tools well including things like co-location and being face-to-face being smart about when we use different things especially now that we're you know, moving past the um.
21:53.90
Maryellen
Yes.
22:04.88
tinyboards
The dangerous aspects of of face-to-face communication right now now na Yeah yes, correct. Yeah yeah, um, um, thank you to the scientific community for the the you know.
22:06.76
Maryellen
So yay Yes, ah thank you.
22:17.74
tinyboards
Ah, amazing things that we've done ah in epidemiology and and vaccine development. Thank you very much but now that we're in that space. Um, it's really interesting to kind of say okay when does when does it make sense to bring that back when should we travel when should we? um.
22:22.12
Maryellen
Yes.
22:33.30
Maryellen
Which okay.
22:37.14
tinyboards
Be be in the same room right? or when we should be in the same Zoom room right? or when or when should we send an update Asynchronously I think it's really interesting to hear you describing hey the the thing that we did you know these past two years.
22:41.72
Maryellen
See yes.
22:56.99
tinyboards
Has been a wake up call to us just doing things the way they'd been done because that's the way they'd been done I Guess maybe that's what I'd be interested to hear you describe you? you said that you have lots of people who are attorneys that that are your clients.
23:02.42
Maryellen
That's that's what I can.
23:12.42
Maryellen
Journeys There are audience.
23:15.25
tinyboards
I'm wondering just this is my impression of of the profession of of ah of the of the law that see that that that seems like a very paper first. Ah, um, you know like we're going to go to the the courthouse.
23:21.50
Maryellen
Ah I.
23:34.39
tinyboards
Right? There is There is a location that is in the center of town for for this the practice of law. Um very often. We're going to have an office nearby that space um tell us the story of an attorney.
23:45.54
Maryellen
By that space.
23:52.61
tinyboards
Um, let's let's let's call them. Ah Joe or Jane lawyer. Um, what? what is it like for them to move away from that mindset to one that embraces using digital tools as well as being present. Um, with with with their clients physically.
24:13.29
Maryellen
Oh this is what I love and why I do what I do um when when we when when I'm first you know working with someone whether it's a small business owner or a small law firm. Let's say that it's you know an attorney in this case and we from the very first. I say like what is your personal vision because usually it is the attorney is the owner of the firm like usually that's you know the person I'm working with so they're still doing the work and they're also you know leading the team and when I ask you know about like their personal vision. It takes them a minute like what do you mean. And sometimes it takes time for them to like go back and you know and reflect on that. But what I mean is if you want eight weeks of vacation time. That's your personal vision then let's figure out you know how we can set your firm up or your small business so that you can do that and you know. When we when we we start there so like it's vision and then your personal vision aligns with with your firm or your small business vision and then we design a life and a business around that so when there's so much freedom and. Don't even know like when you realize that you can do these things and just take a laptop and not use this paper so I've actually had a client from you know they were all in the office before covid then got a taste of like remote. You know. And have given up their office as an attorney has given up their office during covid and we've moved everything like it's all you know it's all paper this person happens to be in real estate. So now we're finding different ways where we don't have to have paper title exams. You know, maybe there's a Pdf version they can look through. But he's even hired 2 people remotely you know and his he's got small kids. So his vision is to like you know travel with his wife and his and his kids and so how do we do that? How do we set that up. So with that with that having that vision There's just this you know. When you have that light bulb moment I guess then it changes the way that you set up your business you know and it it also opens up a new opportunity for more business. You're also just not stuck to your location right? like you know if you want to go.
26:41.33
tinyboards
Um, like we do.
26:45.33
Maryellen
Outside of your state or the neighboring state or the neighboring county for these things we can. So it also opens up a world of opportunity for you to expand you know your team and actually your your practice.
26:58.68
tinyboards
Very cool to be invited into developing a personal vision right? and I think that I think that's that you're you're inviting that vision for for you know law practice owners right? But I think I'm I'm also saying to myself as I'm hearing you talk right.
27:04.12
Maryellen
Oh oh.
27:11.73
Maryellen
Yes, so say Ah yes.
27:18.33
tinyboards
You know expand your personal vision Tyler right? Like think about I mean I mean I don't know like figuring out how to you know, build a life that has eight weeks of vacation that that allows me to travel with my family that allows me to you know, make business connections that are you know, not bound by my geographic location.
27:35.96
Maryellen
Yes.
27:38.15
tinyboards
I think those are all things that like some people are starting to catch onto but like even you know those are not obvious to people right? like like what is obvious is I don't want to drive my car 2 hours a day right to be able to to get.
27:41.32
Maryellen
Yes.
27:50.60
Maryellen
Ah, right? Ah so.
27:54.54
tinyboards
Work done especially when so much of my job is done through a screen right? that that seems really obvious I think it's really interesting to start thinking about those second third order effects. Um, when when you think about you know, expanding.
27:58.46
Maryellen
Yes, yes.
28:07.12
Maryellen
Yes, yes.
28:14.24
tinyboards
Not just our personal vision but our collective workplace vision right? What? What are some things that you're hoping for for us to to catch a glimpse of as it relates to our vision of of work here in in 2022 and beyond.
28:16.40
Maryellen
Um, was off picture.
28:28.71
Maryellen
Yeah, so I think you know ah with that like it. Also I mean you know to your point is it also allows the employees to you know our team members to have that personal vision for themselves too. And ah and of leaders like I've I've always thought you know long before I started my company. You know I worked remotely for another company for four and a half years before starting my own thing and before I found that you know I had always been seeking like I didn't want to be the one stuck in the cube I knew that there was like. Vision and dreams you know outside of like what I pictured like this corporate life. It just wasn't me right? and the the 1 thing is like when I became a mom everything changed I still wanted to work. But I also didn't want to miss out on my children's life. So I think if there's. 1 thing for me, it was being able to be successful. Um, you know contributing to my family and working and enjoying that work but also not missing out on those moments. So I think for anyone listening as a business owner or employee. You know, really thinking about what you value and holding onto that and designing your life around that and that having the flexibility and whether it's time schedule going in. You know to the office a couple of days a week being able to take your laptop and work from Spain for a month if you would like um, really changes like the way that we think about doing things and I I hope that we see all the important things that have happened over this past two years and that we we do I challenge. Everyone to think about you know what do you value and how can you make that you know work for you to like have that vision and and go towards it.
30:29.29
tinyboards
Mary Ellen thank you so much for this opportunity to be invited into expanding our vision personally collectively for us to be thinking about how can we find the work and the workers that.
30:48.26
Maryellen
Yes, just you're welcome. Thanks so much.
30:49.24
tinyboards
Fulfill us Beyond just working a job. Thank you for that invitation.
tinyboards
Hello everyone my name is Tyler sellhorn and welcome to another episode of the remote show where we discuss everything to do with remote work with the people who know it. Best. Thanks so much for listening the remote show is brought to you by we work remotely. The largest community of remote workers in the world with 220000 unique users per month. We work remotely is the most effective way to hire Today. We are blessed to be learning out loud with Mary Ellen stockton Mary Ellen is the Ceo of work. Well wherever Mary Ellen helps small businesses and startups help I really mess that up so we are going to start all the way over. Okay I did not write that down. Well okay, marion helps small businesses and startups.
00:40.19
Maryellen
Hire will and lead will right? I always say hired the right people hire the right people and lead them well as what I usually say.
00:41.58
tinyboards
To hire well and lead well hire the right people and lead them. Well.
00:55.19
Maryellen
Yep, lead them? well. So it kind of flows right? ah.
01:04.20
tinyboards
Yep yep Yep okay, Connor thank you for making a sound amazing I'm gonna get this going started over again. We're at time market 151 hello everyone. My name is Tyler sellhorn and welcome to another episode of the remote show. We discuss everything to do with remote work with the people who know it. Best. Thanks so much for listening the remote show is brought to you by we work remotely. The largest community of remote workers in the world with 220000 unique users per month we work remotely is the most effective way to hire Today. We are blessed to be learning out loud with Mary Ellen stockton Mary Ellen is the Ceo of work. Well work. Well wherever Mary Ellen helps small businesses and startups hire the right people and lead them. Well Mary Ellen welcome to the remote show tell us what are you noticing as we've shifted from a. Selling position on the idea of remote work generally and now kind of starting from the assumption of hybrid and and all remote as being the default what? what are you seeing as you're helping your customers your clients be effective remote leaders.
02:11.60
Maryellen
Yeah I love that question Tyler and and thanks for having me so I think it is you know from the very beginning when I started work. Well wherever there was a focus on you know, remote and I saw all the benefits and I didn't want to have to sell it and so of course it's been nice. Um, to have the shift of over the last two years of people being you know, remote work being more the mainstream right? like that's no longer the selling point I think that what I've seen is this hybrid ah model meaning we have some in office and we have some remote teams is here to stay. And we really have to rethink you know how we're going to do things so it's not business as usual and we've come a long way. So I always say at this time. Let's don't go backwards. Let's think about how we can move forward in these you know hybrid roles and 1 of the things that I see. Over and over again and you set it before when you introduce me is about you know if you hire the right people and you lead them. Well it doesn't matter where they work from so really thinking about you know how we set people up for success. And 1 of the one of the main things is that clear is kind if you if you remember anything clear is kind so having clear goals and expectations as a leader as a team as a business and making sure that you. Everyone knows what is expected of them. You're providing feedback our role as the leader is not to do the work for them or to micromanage our role is to trust that we have hired the right person and we set clear kind you know communications and then we can. Correct them if you know something goes right? If it's not as we wanted it. We can provide feedback. Um, so that's one of the biggest things and 1 of the places I starts when I work with my clients.
04:16.57
tinyboards
Really cool to to you know just to introduce a whole bunch of threads I'd love to pull on there. Um, one of the things that you mentioned was the idea of of let's let's not go backwards right? You you mentioned that you know you.
04:21.54
Maryellen
Yeah.
04:30.90
Maryellen
Ah, you that.
04:36.30
tinyboards
Maybe had to do a little bit of selling on the idea of you know the benefits of remote you know in in a previous iteration of our remote working world I'm I'm wondering when you think about the difference between a a a.
04:43.80
Maryellen
Yes, 3
04:53.75
tinyboards
Company that is saying Okay, we're going to default to a hybrid mode where at least some part of our you know workforce is going to be outside of a co-located environment where they're going to be remote. Um, what do you think those people that are choosing not to be in the office.
05:01.84
Maryellen
Over over.
05:12.51
tinyboards
What are they seeking? What are the benefits that you described and you were were doing a little bit of selling on but before we we had the broad shift during the pandemic to remote working what what? what is it that people are seeking when they say I want to work remotely. What are the benefits that they are seeking.
05:28.27
Maryellen
Um, yeah, there's there's so many things I used to say you know I live in a metro city. So one of the things was that nothing can take away the commute and traffic right? like no matter what you do even if you listen to the best podcast by the time that you. Get to work and you're suck in traffic. You are exhausted so people can start their day whenever works best for them. You know, meaning that if you're a morning morning person and you get in that zone. You can start the day at at seven o'clock and get done. You know. At a certain time I think that works for people so having flexibility of time and where you work um, having that time to be able to focus and have you know heads down time to get things done as great. Also I I find as a way of not going backwards I tell my clients. Think as if you're remote because that means like you know that we are using asynchronous communication that we are preparing for meetings right? beforehand before we have the meeting. We're preparing for it. So maybe we have a shared agenda that we create and send out in advance and it really. Um, forces us to be I think more proactive which is actually better for everyone in the long run. So really thinking through you know how do we work and what kind of work. Do we need to do together and what's best for you know heads down time.
06:53.70
tinyboards
I Think that's super interesting to hear you say think as if you're remote even if you're not right? You're you're talking to you know clients that that may or may not have an office that people can come to and.
06:58.57
Maryellen
Oh your talking.
07:08.21
tinyboards
You know plus one to to dodging an exhausting commute and and you know plus 1000 to having the flexibility to work when we are most productive or when it it fits our lives instead of ah the other way round. Um, one of the things you said in the first set.
07:21.60
Maryellen
So yes, yes.
07:27.43
tinyboards
You you mentioned that hybrid is here to stay and and then you're kind of talking about the idea of thinking as if you're remote put those 2 ideas next to each other for us when you're saying we're going to think as if we're remote but we might also have some people in the office. You you mentioned that it forces proactivity. What What's what do you mean by that because like like we've heard these ideas from the remote thought leaders. But what what does that look like what are the behaviors that we need to take to to maximize our.
07:51.24
Maryellen
That's.
08:03.48
tinyboards
Our workplaces. However, they happen to be organized.
08:04.33
Maryellen
Yeah, Absolutely absolutely. So I think you know with one of the things of like blending So We we had companies as you mentioned that were were fully remote before you know pandemic and before this change but now as she people are shifting Back. You know, no one really wants to go back back into the office or it's usually a mix you know and so now they're moving back to Hybrid. Let's don't get back into the old habits that we had when we were fully in the office meaning that a lot of times I see leaders where I say what is taking up the most of your time. You know what's taking up the most of your time they're overwhelmed too many things to manage and it's interruptions throughout the day. Okay, so let's that's when what an example where I say let's think like we were remote so before you know and we were able to manage it so we did some things like Asynchronous. We had set times where we had to meet right? because we couldn't be in person So like really you know making these meetings Matter. So There's a set time and there's consistency in your one on ones and that's the time they asked you know they ask questions that you have a schedule that everyone can see you know. Um, whether you're in office or not that you have meeting agendas and shared place for collaboration and documents that are seen and accessible to everyone so that those kind of things that you know that's kind of what I say of that like mix and it also includes a don't go backwards is like. Let's don't get back to like now we're partially back in the office and we'll rely on those old ways when they didn't didn't really work well to start with.
09:42.60
tinyboards
Interesting, Interesting to hear you say that the the old ways weren't the best ways and that the romo experience of companies that maybe are even returning to the office is still forcing us to think about.
09:54.91
Maryellen
Is.
10:01.40
tinyboards
What might be better than what we had before and I'm I'm hoping that that you know whether we're become an office first or a remote first. Obviously we're here on the remote show. So we're we're out here in the internet streets for remote work. But you know I'm I'm hoping that we.
10:03.19
Maryellen
Yes.
10:14.33
Maryellen
Strengths oh.
10:18.34
tinyboards
Have that feeling of of forcing the proactivity that that came from being in a distributed environment and bringing that back. Let's let's do what you're encouraging clients. Let's think as if we are remote. Let's prepare for meetings. Let's let's have ways of.
10:27.11
Maryellen
Yes.
10:34.75
tinyboards
You know, sharing documents that are transparent and open and being you know you mentioned and this is what I was going to invite you to talk more about is to say Okay, what do you mean when you say clear is kind I've I've heard that phrase before but um, much more inside of the um.
10:46.13
Maryellen
6 um phrase.
10:54.19
tinyboards
Ah, just peek by behind the curtain here a moment for me. My spouse is a therapist and I've heard that phrase clear is kind from from Brene brown who by the way I Really want to.
10:57.77
Maryellen
I suppose. Yes.
11:07.84
tinyboards
Ah, have an opportunity to talk to her because I'm also a podcast listener. She's been talking to a bunch of people that are that are not ah advocates for remote work I'm I'm really I'm very excited to hear you? Yeah I would I would really like to hear you talk about how to develop trust in a remote team.
11:14.56
Maryellen
Um, bring her on bring her on. Ah.
11:23.71
Maryellen
Yes, yes, so another thing that I usually say is because sometimes when my clients come to me. It's because they've hired the wrong person right? They've hired the wrong person.
11:25.63
tinyboards
Because that seems to be the theme that's out there right now of the of the office first vote.
11:42.60
Maryellen
So Then when we go through and talk about okay well how did we set them up for success. Um, meaning that we had an onboarding and training plan and what does that look like and that we were thorough on the interview because they didn't come to work with you. You know as their leader or the owner of this small business because they didn't think they could succeed and you didn't hire them. Thinking that they couldn't succeed So How can we best set them up well from the start. So What I mean about clear is kind is that you have goals and visions and values for your business and you are communicating those more often than you even feel like you should. So you're communicating you know where we're headed what our purpose is how we work Here. You know the expectations of what it looks like if we're hybrid like we meet these certain times their core hours. Those are dress code. We have a shared Calendar. You know these communication norms. And then also that you're you know, communicating What are the goals for your business like what are we trying to accomplish and then you have goals even for new new team members that align with whatever the goals are or for your business so people want you know. People want expectations. They want to be guided right? like left to our own devices. Um, you know who knows what might happen but they want to be guided like no one you know, just wants is it there. They want you know to for you to communicate these things. So Let's let's do that.
13:11.57
tinyboards
Okay, you you mentioned some very like the behaviors who is the primary audience of the remote show right? We are hiring managers we are remote job seekers and you know you know we're living inside of this.
13:22.68
Maryellen
Yes, yes.
13:28.43
tinyboards
Recruiting hiring onboarding training space and and when you think about you know you mentioned it right off the top to say that you want to help small businesses and startups hire the right people and lead them. Well.
13:29.56
Maryellen
Training space. Ah.
13:43.30
tinyboards
What does it look like inside of a recruiting process. What does it look like inside of the the hiring ah phase of of ah of a candidate's um, you know lifespan with a company and the onboarding the train. What does that look like when we do that? well.
13:57.39
Maryellen
Umm, oh well, again, that goes back to like wow like preparation is key right? really thinking through those things because when people do say okay I've hired the wrong you know the the wrong person so I go through you know we start at the beginning like you know when you needed when you knew that you needed to hire someone a lot of times I feel that people wait too long to hire. So I try to get my clients and people that I work with to think strategic about hiring. Meaning we have a plan we've looked at it for the year we know what's coming up. We know what our goals are and we think about what what kind of team members. We might might need to hire to accomplish our goals so that's the first step and then once we figure that out it's where are the gaps. So we've looked ah like internally at our team. We know the roles and responsibilities. We know what's coming up so where are the gaps and from there you're really creating this job description or this job ad and I really focus a lot especially currently on this job ad piece again. We're being. Clear of what you expect so that no one you know meaning we include the salary the benefits the the values the what we do? What's responsible what you're responsible for you know if we have core hours the kind of things that we you know that we work with. Meaning as much as we can put out there in the job ad then we are attracting the kind of candidate that best you know works with us. So like there's a lot of work that goes into before you even put the job hosting out there and then once you do really creating a. A process that is about the candidate experience because I'm sure as you know and everyone else who's listening is hiring has been. You know a nightmare almost impossible over the last year you know people are are leaving right and left when you don't have flexibility and so. We start of being clear about what we are looking for and then putting that out there where it's really a reflection of what it's like to work with us right? So that somebody says heck yeah I want to work with them and then designing a hiring process that includes how you work so that we are thorough in that process. And I always say if it's not a heck yes, it's a heck, no meaning that you know if there were any like red flags or things that just kind of threw you off guard in the interview process. Then it's probably not going to be a good fit. So don't rush the process like it's very important not to rest the process and.
16:37.60
Maryellen
And then after you know we do finally you know have this amazing candidate that is starting then that is you know, just the beginning of preparing again for amazing an onboarding experience having a training plan. You know, really getting to know them. Having more check-ins and one on ones from the very first you know and the very first like ninety days also to set some small goals and wins upfront so that the person that has just joined your team. You know. Can feel like they've accomplished something and you know and are motivated to continue on. So. It's a very you know I think the hiring process I would say starts long before the hire.
17:24.77
tinyboards
I really enjoy the idea that we want to throughout this process that we're helping to manage right? We want to make it obvious to the candidate right? and we we will also want to make it obvious to us which candidate. Is the 1 we want it. We want those heck yeahs and and there's probably going to be some heck Nos through the process to to get to that point where we're saying okay this this person ah applied after they had all of the as much information as we could.
17:43.46
Maryellen
Yes, yes, yes.
18:00.68
tinyboards
You know, reasonably provide inside of a job ad they still chose to apply right? and and there there wasn't any secrets of like Ha we're we're here. We're now you know and it's like but but like no we we we want them to be able to self select out if that's not something that fits them right.
18:04.30
Maryellen
Yes, yes, it's like.
18:16.86
Maryellen
Bright bright.
18:20.12
tinyboards
Um, I think that's so key to be be really clear as you have described and that is and that that is a kindness right to to be obvious about which things are important to you and which things are not and then also setting someone up for success of saying okay hey.
18:25.93
Maryellen
Is experience to be obvious.
18:36.53
tinyboards
Here are the ways for us to feel really good and for you to feel really good about us in those first 30 60 90 days. Um, okay you you mentioned ah earlier on about leaders right? Having old habits right.
18:41.71
Maryellen
First. Yes.
18:50.26
Maryellen
Peters right? Listen this is this is.
18:54.89
tinyboards
And and and doing an audit of their calendar of their time. Um, what do you think are the key things that we need to say goodbye to as it relates to old habits and being being successful in 2022 and Beyond. What do we need to embrace as new habits to say. Okay, now we're ready to win Now. It's a heck yeah for for us and for our company as we as we lead.
19:21.13
Maryellen
Right? I think you know I didn't I didn't mention um I didn't mention it when we were first talking about it but 1 of the things is like we have all these amazing tools now right? So use them use them like so thinking about it doesn't mean. We add a million tools. It means you know what tools were we you know using and use those so you know there are ah with with the calendar with what can be accomplished. You know, asynchronously when do we need to use Zoom like when it is it. You know when would we like to see somebody face to face. So really thinking about you know the tools and and using them. Well you know they're they're in place for a reason I think about um, you know I work with a lot of attorneys. So when I'm working with them and I think about them having to you know. Go to court for all these things or have all this paper storage. They are moving away from that and they can take their laptop and work well wherever and it's amazing. So you know as we're thinking about that when you if you want to be able to work well from from wherever. You know what do you need to do to set up on the backend to be able to do that and still lead from afar and that is having you know the right tools in place and the right you know ways to use them and how we communicate and that. That it. You know you show and ah I know that we've had some pushback from clients that people work with saying well I don't want you know I don't I want to come see you in person or this takes away things. But I think the ways that it can enhance that client relationship even far outweigh. How we were like the going backwards because it's like you know we could have a Zoom call and not have to meet in person and you not have to drive and me not have to drive and it can all be handled so it is also you know, still having a personal touch but then using the tools wisely to enhance. Overall experience.
21:30.96
tinyboards
Interesting to hear you talk about using the tools and then in in the midst of you so talking about using the tools you mentioned things like paper you mentioned things like driving right.
21:41.45
Maryellen
Things like things like.
21:47.52
tinyboards
I Think it's really really interesting to hear you describe using tools well including things like co-location and being face-to-face being smart about when we use different things especially now that we're you know, moving past the um.
21:53.90
Maryellen
Yes.
22:04.88
tinyboards
The dangerous aspects of of face-to-face communication right now now na Yeah yes, correct. Yeah yeah, um, um, thank you to the scientific community for the the you know.
22:06.76
Maryellen
So yay Yes, ah thank you.
22:17.74
tinyboards
Ah, amazing things that we've done ah in epidemiology and and vaccine development. Thank you very much but now that we're in that space. Um, it's really interesting to kind of say okay when does when does it make sense to bring that back when should we travel when should we? um.
22:22.12
Maryellen
Yes.
22:33.30
Maryellen
Which okay.
22:37.14
tinyboards
Be be in the same room right? or when we should be in the same Zoom room right? or when or when should we send an update Asynchronously I think it's really interesting to hear you describing hey the the thing that we did you know these past two years.
22:41.72
Maryellen
See yes.
22:56.99
tinyboards
Has been a wake up call to us just doing things the way they'd been done because that's the way they'd been done I Guess maybe that's what I'd be interested to hear you describe you? you said that you have lots of people who are attorneys that that are your clients.
23:02.42
Maryellen
That's that's what I can.
23:12.42
Maryellen
Journeys There are audience.
23:15.25
tinyboards
I'm wondering just this is my impression of of the profession of of ah of the of the law that see that that that seems like a very paper first. Ah, um, you know like we're going to go to the the courthouse.
23:21.50
Maryellen
Ah I.
23:34.39
tinyboards
Right? There is There is a location that is in the center of town for for this the practice of law. Um very often. We're going to have an office nearby that space um tell us the story of an attorney.
23:45.54
Maryellen
By that space.
23:52.61
tinyboards
Um, let's let's let's call them. Ah Joe or Jane lawyer. Um, what? what is it like for them to move away from that mindset to one that embraces using digital tools as well as being present. Um, with with with their clients physically.
24:13.29
Maryellen
Oh this is what I love and why I do what I do um when when we when when I'm first you know working with someone whether it's a small business owner or a small law firm. Let's say that it's you know an attorney in this case and we from the very first. I say like what is your personal vision because usually it is the attorney is the owner of the firm like usually that's you know the person I'm working with so they're still doing the work and they're also you know leading the team and when I ask you know about like their personal vision. It takes them a minute like what do you mean. And sometimes it takes time for them to like go back and you know and reflect on that. But what I mean is if you want eight weeks of vacation time. That's your personal vision then let's figure out you know how we can set your firm up or your small business so that you can do that and you know. When we when we we start there so like it's vision and then your personal vision aligns with with your firm or your small business vision and then we design a life and a business around that so when there's so much freedom and. Don't even know like when you realize that you can do these things and just take a laptop and not use this paper so I've actually had a client from you know they were all in the office before covid then got a taste of like remote. You know. And have given up their office as an attorney has given up their office during covid and we've moved everything like it's all you know it's all paper this person happens to be in real estate. So now we're finding different ways where we don't have to have paper title exams. You know, maybe there's a Pdf version they can look through. But he's even hired 2 people remotely you know and his he's got small kids. So his vision is to like you know travel with his wife and his and his kids and so how do we do that? How do we set that up. So with that with that having that vision There's just this you know. When you have that light bulb moment I guess then it changes the way that you set up your business you know and it it also opens up a new opportunity for more business. You're also just not stuck to your location right? like you know if you want to go.
26:41.33
tinyboards
Um, like we do.
26:45.33
Maryellen
Outside of your state or the neighboring state or the neighboring county for these things we can. So it also opens up a world of opportunity for you to expand you know your team and actually your your practice.
26:58.68
tinyboards
Very cool to be invited into developing a personal vision right? and I think that I think that's that you're you're inviting that vision for for you know law practice owners right? But I think I'm I'm also saying to myself as I'm hearing you talk right.
27:04.12
Maryellen
Oh oh.
27:11.73
Maryellen
Yes, so say Ah yes.
27:18.33
tinyboards
You know expand your personal vision Tyler right? Like think about I mean I mean I don't know like figuring out how to you know, build a life that has eight weeks of vacation that that allows me to travel with my family that allows me to you know, make business connections that are you know, not bound by my geographic location.
27:35.96
Maryellen
Yes.
27:38.15
tinyboards
I think those are all things that like some people are starting to catch onto but like even you know those are not obvious to people right? like like what is obvious is I don't want to drive my car 2 hours a day right to be able to to get.
27:41.32
Maryellen
Yes.
27:50.60
Maryellen
Ah, right? Ah so.
27:54.54
tinyboards
Work done especially when so much of my job is done through a screen right? that that seems really obvious I think it's really interesting to start thinking about those second third order effects. Um, when when you think about you know, expanding.
27:58.46
Maryellen
Yes, yes.
28:07.12
Maryellen
Yes, yes.
28:14.24
tinyboards
Not just our personal vision but our collective workplace vision right? What? What are some things that you're hoping for for us to to catch a glimpse of as it relates to our vision of of work here in in 2022 and beyond.
28:16.40
Maryellen
Um, was off picture.
28:28.71
Maryellen
Yeah, so I think you know ah with that like it. Also I mean you know to your point is it also allows the employees to you know our team members to have that personal vision for themselves too. And ah and of leaders like I've I've always thought you know long before I started my company. You know I worked remotely for another company for four and a half years before starting my own thing and before I found that you know I had always been seeking like I didn't want to be the one stuck in the cube I knew that there was like. Vision and dreams you know outside of like what I pictured like this corporate life. It just wasn't me right? and the the 1 thing is like when I became a mom everything changed I still wanted to work. But I also didn't want to miss out on my children's life. So I think if there's. 1 thing for me, it was being able to be successful. Um, you know contributing to my family and working and enjoying that work but also not missing out on those moments. So I think for anyone listening as a business owner or employee. You know, really thinking about what you value and holding onto that and designing your life around that and that having the flexibility and whether it's time schedule going in. You know to the office a couple of days a week being able to take your laptop and work from Spain for a month if you would like um, really changes like the way that we think about doing things and I I hope that we see all the important things that have happened over this past two years and that we we do I challenge. Everyone to think about you know what do you value and how can you make that you know work for you to like have that vision and and go towards it.
30:29.29
tinyboards
Mary Ellen thank you so much for this opportunity to be invited into expanding our vision personally collectively for us to be thinking about how can we find the work and the workers that.
30:48.26
Maryellen
Yes, just you're welcome. Thanks so much.
30:49.24
tinyboards
Fulfill us Beyond just working a job. Thank you for that invitation.
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